For 3d / sculpted keyboards, this person is selling assembled to order Dactyl manuforms: https://dactyl.bigcartel.com/, A good reference for flat boards is https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/. As you can see a bunch of common keypresses usually delegated to the pinkies have been set on the thumb clusters. - I have a window switching key, which holds down Alt and presses Tab, but keeps Alt held down for 0.5s in case of subsequent presses. Try the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic, $60, works well and looks nice, but not mechanical. So I am just wondering why it's so hard to find a nice split keyboard with a standard layout. People value the long-term health of their wrists. The wires made it useless for me. The company claims this is a result of over three years of R&D, incorporating feedback from customers and the general keyboard community as a whole on what they wanted from the ErgoDox EZ and other such split, … This hasn't been an issue since every work Mac since 2015 has been a the old style keyboard for some reason. I'm a touch typist, so i switched to blank keycaps https://pimpmykeyboard.com/dcs-blank-keysets/. The closer positioning of the arrow keys has left my elbows feeling better at the end of the day. For low profile switches there is the Kailh Choc family, though there is a limited choice of caps. The folding and carrying case made this an instant buy for me. > Why can't there just be a manufacturer that goes for the niche of standard ISO rather than ergonomic, or with too few keys, or with some emphasis on buckling spring style feel? I have washed a regular keyboards in a dishwasher, electronics and all. Why does it need to contain an actual ARM processor? The same could be said about most extra features on this ZSA Moonlander board overall, although I think there's some utility in being able to leverage the non-essential keys when it's convenient, especially when it costs that much. I'm a recent'ish convert from the MS Natural Ergonomic after decades. Those are $80-$120 but I hope the build quality will pay off in the long run. Ah this is really cool, quite similar to a keyboard I’m designing -. The repo I linked to is a fork of the original abandoned one; it seems to be being updated regularly (last merge 8 days ago). I used a Kinesis Advantage for a few years before switching to the Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB. (so that you don't have to unplug and plug it all the time), The keyboard in the submitted post comes with a buzzer built-in. I've had RSI issues in the past, but this spring (when I bought those two), I was in intense pain for days at a time, even when not at my desk. (And symmetrical meta keys.) FWIW, I'm a happy customer and you may need to read this comment accordingly. After using Advantage2 for 10ish years I can't really go back to a flat keyboard. It is fairly simple for most cheap membrane keyboards, like from Dell or Logitech and whatever. Personally I tried the ErgoDox EZ and had to return it because it damaged my productivity since it doesn't support just using a normal keyboard layout. I've had the EZ for a while now and my only gripe has been how much of a pain it is to travel with. If it's built as well as my Ergo from them. Also there are no rubber feet at the back if you decide not to use the stands. Let's talk about some changes they made that I really like: * The left side is the primary. Though you're now in custom keyboard territory which means you're either building it yourself, or finding a person/company to assemble it for you. If I was gonna get one of these in the future, id probably use it in the office given its a little more portable. Keep us posted please. I would hazard a guess because it allows a ton of configuration and key remapping options. $393.40 shipped is too steep though, for that price I think the ergodox / moonlander … I wouldn't mind seeing overlapping keys. Do you have a reference for this? We'll get there. If anyone is interested in building their own split ergo: I think the Kyria would be perfect for me if it had individual RGB backlit keys. When I first bought a split keyboard, I found that I was stretching far too much to reach the "Y" key with my left hand. Specifically, this has a STM32F303xC. Most reduced ergo keyboards are heavily reliant upon layers to provide access to function keys, media keys, numpad, etc. The keyboard comes pre-assembled and is packed full of useful features. The company claims this is a result of over three years of R&D, incorporating feedback from customers and the general keyboard community as a whole on what they wanted from the ErgoDox … I contacted support on it a few months ago and they suggested I try to open up the case and fix it. I bought my ErgoDox EZ in late April, and one of my criteria was wider keys for the pinky fingers. Still, the thumb cluster isn't perfect and its hard for most people to reach all of the keys. Most of these boards have software that lets you output macros as well meaning that you can essentially output key short cuts that would have used the f keys, or any other 3 plus combination of keys as just two. * EDIT: I have been curious if a design where the thumb buttons push inward is workable. This is another keyboard that might work better in a tray. And the OLEDs are a nice touch. I'm grateful for the strict layout so that I type more ergonomically. But you can already map the keyboard's keys to anything you want, no need to map twice. Still got it attached to my server box. I think my arms would appreciate a way to interact with the mouse without moving my hands away from the keys. * Tall keys that require my wrists to hold my fingers in the air, or for my wrists to lay on supports which put all the weight on my wrists instead of my arms. Have been using Kinesis keyboards for many years. I would not get a wireless keyboard now, it's not very unreliable, but enough to be a slight nuisance for no benefit. Usually to reduce desk space. Being able to adjust the thumb would be nice, but I lucked out on hand size and mine works just fine. It resolved a lot of issues I got because my middle finger is so much longer than my index finger. If you don't, you'll likely end up paying that much to just keep fixing or improving the situation. All other Ergodox, or Ergodox alternatives, seem like much more work to get working the way you want. I don't want this specific keyboard, so it isn't a win for me, but there are surely dozens of folks like me, dozens! Why can't there just be a manufacturer that goes for the niche of standard ISO rather than ergonomic, or with too few keys, or with some emphasis on buckling spring style feel? This is literally the only keyboard I have found that uses those switches. Its also designed to be easily customizable. I would not have coped well if not for Covid-19. Coupled with "sticky modifiers" so that they can be tapped instead of being held down to do things like Alt+F4 I don't have any desire to go back to dedicated function keys. Not if you combine that feature with wireless or a desire for backlighting. press B with my right hand. It's not like this layout is unusual. But splits with most of these features can be had for $150 or less, so I don't really see the appeal of spending 200 more without a commensurate doubling of functionality, ergonomics, etc. The second biggest factor is that the tall Cherry style switches and keycaps requires a lot of travel distance for activation. http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/501437fce9123e... http://xahlee.info/kbd/kinesis_keyboard_howto.html, https://novelkeys.xyz/collections/switches. I bought mine a few months ago, and honestly I have 0 regrets. It's liberating to try out different layouts and see what ends up making sense for you over time. In this case it's a combination of switch mechanism and keycaps. Where you might have used an AVR or PIC before, nowadays a small ARM is also a completely normal choice. Obviously, as a programmer, these are all keys I use a lot. It has really low latency [1]. Next, I discovered there were numerous choices to make about the exact Ergodox EZ was was going to order. Why might users care? It's wireless and has a standard layout which doesn't require any learning, including a real row of function-keys, full size arrow-block and pg-up/down. They do these awful design decisions on far too many of their keyboards. I agree its pretty easy to switch back and forth between different split keyboards and to traditional keyboards. I might try and make it a habit, now I think about it. (+1 for the DM! The Maltron probably came up with the original design, and they're great for that, but the keys of the Kinesis feel better/sturdier. Making this even more concrete, I am in the market for some new keyboards, and at least one of them is one I'd like to write my own firmware for. Say for example one wants to use it for gaming - most games expect there to be an outer column. Maybe the "some time" part is actually around six months of continuous usage instead of about three. I have the TKL version of same keyboard and it is a great value for the price but it has several flaws. I'm glad I switched. But standards are not kept to when you move out of the US layout. Kalih Brown are quite soft (40g) and quite low-travel (1.1 mm to actuation). Or have a key sequence to restart the timer. Especially at the likely volumes here? And the winner is… *Drumroll* THE BUTCHERED ERGODOX! There were no sacred cows - … I.e., what do you do when you're traveling (or just using your laptop away from you desk)? I hate to add to the Advantage2 fan club, but Kinesis absolutely knocked it out of the park in terms of ergonomics. It is the best keyboard I had so far, and this new one is not so different (it feels like a version 2.0 of the Ergodox rather than a totally different keyboard). Trying asking on. Take a look at Durgod Taurus K320 TKL ISO UK version - classic look, Cherry MX brown switches. But IMHO, the most ergonomic switches are low-travel ones. I recently bought and Ergodox-EZ, after previously getting my first mechanical keyboard (the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, which I love). I'd prefer rubber domes. a) different people need the spacing between the sides to be different. Most Ergo-like boards that do that do so for greater keycap compatibility; the “piano keys” are completely custom and defeat that purpose entirely. https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/6wt6mi/evaluating_mcu... https://josh.robsonchase.com/rest-of-the-keyboard/, https://github.com/pierrechevalier83/ferris. I think it's best in a tray, although some trays may not be tall enough for it. $349 seems a bit pricey, but at least it does have the full key layout (even if the function keys are rubber). On my ergodox, my thumbs can only operate two of the buttons. Probably to save on shipping or some dumb thing, I don't remember. Makes constant typing ridiculously comfortable. I bought a vertical mouse (cheap Anker) at the same time. I'm mostly touching the inner edge of the key because my pinkies aren't that laterally flexible. I made a keeb.io Nyqist recently and got a few pcbs printed for Redox, need to build that out. > It's the exact opposite of what you want to be doing if you have wrist RSI. Its problem when 'you life to buy things, not buy things to live.'. * It's thinner. Nevermind switch choice. I use the MBP too. I dread to think what keyboard layout crimes go on outside the English speaking world. I just draw the line at having to do it for the PCs I use regularly. I still have my MS keyboard but never want to use it. The 4x6 looks really cool, but I felt I was already pushing it in terms of the amount of change I was talking on, i.e. Again there is some massive backslash key instead of an ISO UK keyboard in all its glory. There isn't a great single resource I can point to, but try the twitter account Yusha Kobo[0], which is a keyboard shop in Tokyo. Might as well learn Dvorak keyboards. [1] https://www.prohavit.com/products/hv-kb395l-low-profile-mech... Reading through the various switches they offer, it seems the Kailh Silver might be the closest match of what they offer to Apple’s switches, but I sadly am not willing to spend nearly $400 to find out. My first decent keyboard was the Ergodox EZ, almost a year later I got a Dygma Raise. The ErgoDox EZ is another ortholinear split keyboard. Personally, after using the Kinesis Advantage for many years, I'm going a different direction... fewer keys, lower profile, etc. https://blog.splitkb.com/blog/introducing-the-kyria, I can pay for innovation but this style is old. I think it's coming. Standards might not be optimal solutions. Hasu's USB-USB converter works with qmk/tmk and will work with (almost) any keyboard. When a keyboard is truly split you can adjust each side to be placed where it is best for you. 1 Set (2 PCBs) for the Ergodox. It's much much better to train your muscles and posture to keep your wrists from resting on a surface while you type. One must move their entire right hand (or have a long pinky) to hit it. They all charge over $300 afaik. A purposed KB IC probably wouldn’t handle split halves. I wish there was a bigger market for CYO switches, but I haven't found anywhere to get them. I have several ergo keyboards, and my favorite (and one I'm currently typing on) is the Atreus [1]. I don't have it but use ergonomic tools to avoid such in the long term. * The rotating hinge for the thumb cluster is neat, but what about just moving them closer? Maltron also makes the claim that you can type 80 wpm with their 1 handed keyboard but there seems to be no publicly available evidence of anyone getting anywhere near that fast. If more people knew about the benefits they bring, problems they solve, they would be much more popular. We need more options with long-term companies and support. That's what most people complain about, and rightly so in my opinion - it has 1/2 useable keys, the others can be used but you have to reposition your hand. I upvoted it then, and do so again now. I might still choose to build the manuform, but it's nice that there's an option out there with adjustable thumb keys, I've never seen that before and I hope it becomes a trend in the split ergonomic keyboard world. > being able to pop it in the dishwasher for deep cleaning. I think they need to go for a smaller ergo though, I would also have liked a more aggressive columnar stagger, but I will still get one. Or staying connected (power on) but not responding to input. It has slightly longer travel than the new one, very similar to the pre-butterfly Macbooks. Luckily, low-travel versions of many good quality keyboard switches are being produced and developed more often now to cater the gaming market. I prefer the feel of these and make fewer mistakes, but I’m convinced they make my wrists worse. Already had somwthing like this. I've been using the Ergodox-EZ (s) for more than 5 years now and I really can't complain so far. For the real classic look, I just had to replace the 2 oddly colored keycaps (provided in the box). It is sad to see Logitech, Microsoft and others offer us compromised designs that cost either a pittance of serious money. The ErgoDox EZ is very similar to the Moonlander except it comes in at a more budget-friendly price (albeit still … No per-key dedicated backlight, no programmable ARM Cortex or any other thrills, it's just a simple, comfortable, plug in and start using keyboard. Neat! I wouldn't call this a next-generation ergonomic keyboard unless it also had integrated pointing device options like the UHK has. It lacks the ortholinear layout, mechanical switches, and programmability of the Moonlander. Read the full review I would expect tall keys to be more damaging to wrists over time due to awkward position and longer travel time. I bet Microsoft sells more Sculpts in a month than ZSA does in a year. The ErgoDox EZ, in my opinion, is the most versatile keyboard on the market. It has a reputation for bad build quality but i've been lucky with mine. This keyboard, and the Erdogox EZ I bought a month ago are reprogrammable! keyboard.io also recently completed a kickstarter campaign for mass-produced Atreuses and are taking pre-orders for the next run: https://shop.keyboard.io/products/keyboardio-atreus, [2] https://atreus.technomancy.us/i/layout-fn.svg, [3] https://atreus.technomancy.us/i/layout-bonus.svg. Looks like a buy if you were planning to buy a mechanical ergonomic keyboard. There's a real danger here - I generally pride myself as someone who is conscientious of consumerist tendencies, but it's become clear that my drive for better ergonomics is no longer about the actual facilitation of work or avoidance of injury. I liked the previous gen better. So the audio feedback is basically worth nothing. I never understood the appeal of wireless keyboards. The thumb cluster though is a fantastic improvement over pinky modifiers, that's not my complaint. - A short tap of my media key is "Media Next". It is designed from the ground up to ride where there are no roads, no trails and no people. Glad to hear that you're making design changes to fix this. I have built myself a couple of Nyquist ortho splits and with my even lower volume I spent even more despite providing the labor and part of the design work. I don't touch type perfectly using the "official" method. * I find it strange that the default layouts for both keyboards split the arrow keys. I have missed the clustered nav keys but have also really enjoyed having them closer to standard hand placement. For similar ergonomic keyboards (mostly DIY), there's of course a GitHub awesome list: I recently forked the "awesome" list as it seemed a bit abandoned, but I haven't added anything to it just yet. Basically, on a normal keyboard, to the right of the "l" key, you've got another 3 keys - a ;, a ', and the enter key. Need to? I wouldn't hold my breath on the Topre front, the company is notoriously conservative in their offerings. This keyboard seems to solve both of those problems so I may take the plunge and buy one. But really, my shoulder pain is so much less, it's ultimately relaxed being able to work both arms on shoulder width. Add a couple of USB ports, and it would be nearly perfect. Looks interesting. Maltron keyboards are excellent but expensive and hard to source, particularly outside of the UK. 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